@manton doesn’t his support for genocide affect his good guy standing?

@friend I guess I would just say Biden clearly has concerns about how the war in Gaza has progressed since his early support. Even now, he wouldn't agree with the framing of genocide, though. (Trying to answer your question without this turning into a debate on the war itself!)

@friendI had the same response as friend. As I read through various discussions about definitions of genocide, war crimes, etc, it's increasingly likely that this is not just ethnic cleansing but is crossing over to genocide.

Biden may not agree but his is not the only opinion that matters. In terms of how history will judge and the larger context, other opinions will matter more.

Biden is still the better choice if we must choose between him and Trump. I would also add that, of course, Biden's support is just in-line with general US support. What's changed in the past couple of months is that Israel has gone from established apartheid to genocide and in general Biden has gone along with it.

A last thought. Democrats in the US are rightly concerned about Trump, the Republican Party and the rise of fascism in the US. BUT, it's worth calling out that what we're seeing in Israel is what exactly? What's the background to genocide? What can or should be said about Israel and it's own increasingly fascist leanings? US citizens don't discuss this as much as they should. US support of Israel should be up for debate especially given current events.

@manton concerns or not, he’s still strongly supporting it, bypassing congressional approval to send weapons, not calling for a ceasefire, etc.
I don’t think whether he would frame it as genocide or not is very relevant, most people supporting terrible crimes have a different framing that excuses what they’re doing. Almost everyone believes they’re the good guys.

(And this is not to say Trump isn’t much worse, of course Trump is much worse. But I personally would never consider calling Biden anything but terrible, just so happens that the competing candidate is more terrible)

@manton The thing is, Biden's extemporaneous speech is a thing he's done for decades. It's not the doddering of a senile old man, it's the folksy schtick he's *always* had. Man of the people and all that, taking the Amtrak home from work like a…regular Joe.