Mastodon and public data

I’ve been thinking about Mastodon and the fallout from Bridgy’s plan to connect ActivityPub servers to Bluesky. For a snapshot of how this blew up, see this GitHub issue discussion, now thankfully closed after it devolved into personal attacks.

It often feels that (some) Mastodon folks care more about Mastodon as a platform than they care about the open web as a platform. I’m not sure if that’s a completely fair framing, but thinking about it this way has helped clarify my view of debates around public posts.

When I post to my blog, my posts are on the web, and so hopefully make the web a little better. I’m contributing to sort of a larger purpose, something I can refer to later myself, and maybe something others will find value in too. It’s a subtly different mindset than posting to a specific platform where I mostly expect my followers to see it.

My blog is connected via ActivityPub to Mastodon, and via cross-posting to Bluesky, Nostr, Threads, and elsewhere. But I could disconnect those platforms and it wouldn’t change much about how I post and what I write about.

That’s not to say there aren’t great reasons to prefer a smaller, more controlled audience. We have Mastodon post visibility to limit who can see posts. We have robots.txt to discourage search engines. We have settings to make posts ephemeral. As Bridgy developer Ryan Barrett said himself in an article on TechCrunch, this level of control is one thing that has made Mastodon a good online home for many people:

A lot of the people there, especially people who have been there for a while, came from more traditional centralized social networks and got mistreated and abused there, so they came looking for and tried to put together a space that was safer, smaller and more controlled. They expect consent for anything they do with their data.

I respect this view. It’s not how I approach my own blog, but I would never argue that someone shouldn’t be able to protect themselves. There should be a variety of approaches in between sharing everything online and sharing nothing.

And we do have additional solutions already. Mastodon server administrators can block other servers that are causing problems. Users can mute or block other users. These solutions apply equally to Mastodon servers and to a potential Bluesky bridge.

If there are no technical differences between blocking a rogue Mastodon server and a Bluesky bridge, what are people truly concerned about? It often appears to get back to identifying with Mastodon and its principles, and inherently distrusting other companies, fearing a return to the worst of massive, centralized platforms.

If this sounds familiar, it’s not unlike the reaction many had when Threads was rumored to support ActivityPub. I blogged about this last year, hoping more people would see it as a positive step forward:

Meta adopting ActivityPub has the potential to fast-forward the progress of the social web by years. Ever since I grew disillusioned with Twitter a decade ago and started pushing for indie microblogs, then writing a book about social networks and founding Micro.blog, I could only dream of a moment where a massive tech company embraced such a fundamental open API.

Smaller social networks are an important part of finding our way out of the social network mess of larger, especially ad-based platforms. Mastodon deserves enormous credit for making federation and smaller servers actually work. I can’t overstate how significant it was for Mastodon to be a mature platform that could welcome users leaving Twitter X.

Federation is just one part of the progress we can make, though. We also need to embrace the open web again, encouraging more people to have their own blog and identity online. Bridgy has been working toward these goals for years, helping people connect their blog to other social networks.

My concern with some Mastodon users (again, not everyone!) pushing back against interoperability with non-Mastodon platforms is that it moves Mastodon away from the open web, which is surely at odds with the original purpose of Mastodon and many of its features, from an open client API to federation itself. We can already see some signs of Mastodon putting up slight roadblocks to open web access. For example, permalink posts on Mastodon require JavaScript — you can’t view HTML source and get the post details, making it a little more difficult to build tools that understand Mastodon pages. At the API level, some servers also require signed ActivityPub requests, making it a little more difficult to look up user profiles.

The developer community for Mastodon is free to make any of these decisions they want. To play this out to its most extreme version, they could even disable RSS feeds, treating Mastodon servers more like protected, mini silos.

But moving away from openness will not only limit the potential of the fediverse, it risks holding back the larger social web. If there’s a knee-jerk reaction to interoperability with other platforms, Mastodon may find that its head start as the largest federated platform becomes eroded, eclipsed by Bluesky and other platforms. I would ask the folks on Mastodon who are so strongly against bridging to Bluesky if that’s the future they really want.

Martin Laurent

“If there are no technical differences between blocking a rogue Mastodon server and a Bluesky bridge, what are people truly concerned about?”

That’s what bugs me since the beginning of this polemic. Probably mainly misconceptions about Bluesky. Or the fear of an “instance” as big as the Fediverse.

Manton Reece

@Kye He is not an asshole. I’ve been following his work for years and know he approaches these kind of problems thoughtfully. And even his initial post announcing this mentioned privacy and welcomed feedback.

Terence

@manton.org When I look at some of the posts on Mastodon, I get the feeling that there’s a form of communitarianism that’s specific to this alternative, decentralised and committed social network. A lot of people there are more activists than sharers.

Terence

When I look at some of the posts on Mastodon, I get the feeling that there’s a form of communitarianism that’s specific to this alternative, decentralised and committed social network. A lot of people there are more activists than sharers.

Terence

@manton.org On Bluesky, at least so far, people seem to be much more open-minded and take themselves less seriously. Personally, I interact a lot more here, as I did in the early years of Twitter.

Terence

On Bluesky, at least so far, people seem to be much more open-minded and take themselves less seriously. Personally, I interact a lot more here, as I did in the early years of Twitter.

Terence

@manton.org I think it’s a shame that interoperability causes such rejection, but I’m not surprised.

Terence

I think it’s a shame that interoperability causes such rejection, but I’m not surprised.

Wesley Moore

@manton "My concern with some Mastodon users (again, not everyone!) pushing back against interoperability with non-Mastodon platforms is that it moves Mastodon away from the open web"

I think part of the problem is that Bluesky chose the non-open option in that there were already a W3C standard and they chose to do their own thing, which doesn't feel very open web. I wonder if there would be less complaining if they were using ActivityPub.

Shreyan Jain

@wezm @manton See, this is exactly the thing he is complaining about in the original post! The attitude that ActivityPub must be the be-all-end-all of social networking on the internet, and that somehow Bluesky trying their own AT Protocol somehow detracts from Mastodon and ActivityPub 's usefulness.

JL Gatewood

Half of the people complaining wouldn’t even know and understand anything about this if the bridge were to just go online and do its thing with no announcement whatsoever. They’d just be getting posts from @someone@somehandle.atproto.bridgy or something. It’s an open network bridge with another open network. Like Matrix and IRC.

I really don’t understand the complaints and definitely don’t see how it warranted brigading and name-calling.

Khürt Williams

@anitramwaju.malauren.be fear. Just fear.

Khürt Williams

@Kye I don’t think Ryan was being an asshole. He just didn’t understand Mastodon users.

They expect consent for anything they do with their data.

JL Gatewood

@khurtwilliams

He just didn’t understand Mastodon users.

some mastodon users… A FEW. Who seemingly don’t understand public posting means the same thing as placing a note on a bulletin board in a park or making a classified in a newspaper or even Craigslist; the innanet does not care about your mile long FAQ for consent to whatever you posted online for everyone to see. Unless that post is encrypted and password protected, it’s subject to being copypasta’d, remixed, and ganked just like anything else on the open web… As it should be.

Don’t want your feelings hurt by some interloping 14 year old trying to be edgy? Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, private Matrix rooms and Discord are all there. Mastodon (and ATProto) were not built for that kind of privacy and actually are coded to be as open and flexible as possible… These folks are using the wrong tech for their use case.

Khürt Williams

@starrwulfe agreed.

Manton Reece @manton
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