@manton People just mark anything they don’t want as spam, rather than unsubscribing.

@manton I can tell you exactly why. I receive dozens of spam emails per day and most don’t include unsubscribe links. And most that do are bogus unsubscribe links. Plus one of my oldest email addresses has been bought and sold so frequently on lists that unsubscribing from any one list is pointless. I have the skills and time to unsubscribe from emails from senders I know will probably respect the unsubscribe, but most people don’t, so marking anything that’s unwanted as spam is just easier

@bigzaphod @manton I’ll take their TestFlight seat 😂

@bigzaphod @manton Darn, I wonder if the Unsubscribe link in Mail labels it as spam? I hope not.

@manton I'm sure that's not your case, but I've had a bunch of devs I talked to and said “Oh keep me posted about your progress with app X” and then they put me on a general mailing list for their company (99% stuff completely unrelated to what I asked about). I wouldn't be surprised if it's misunderstandings like that. User thinks they get A, devs give them B. Or end users just getting a Test Flight invite and having no idea what Test Flight is (and the explanation being buried deep in prose).

@manton I've also had cases where it was simply a very long time between joining a kickstarter (or other mailing list) and actually getting their first e-mail, and the mail not being clear, or me remembering only the product name but not that “Fancy Didgeridoo Software" makes that app. Or that their “fulfillment partner” is “Correct Battery Horse Staple” … too many companies assume users know their company structure (even such basics) or specialized services.

if there is not already, can micro.blog send a Welcome email and ask the user to exempt the newsletter from their filters?

@manton similar with disputing charges rather than requesting a refund.

@cdevroe Yep, that's the worst one. If someone disputes a $5 charge from me, I lose something like $30.

@uliwitness @bigzaphod I just looked into this and Apple Mail looks for the List-Unsubscribe header. I guess I should add that.

@fahrni @bigzaphod I don't think the Unsubscribe marks as spam, but I expect the Move to Junk button does.

subscribing to a service doesn't mean we are necessarily opting-in for marketing, etc. emails. Those are what I mark as spam.

I think there are bigger issues you might want to take a look at. I recently checked my subscriber list and pretty sure the majority new ones were spam themselves. I’ve culled a lot but honestly there should be an easy way for you to help identify if a new subscriber is spam or not. Typically it’s linked to a two step verification process (which I don’t know we have in Micro.blog right now?

@manton believe me, I know!

@kaa All subscriptions have to opt-in with an email confirmation to make sure the address is valid. That is annoying if spammers are subscribing. No idea what they get out of it and it could definitely be making this worse.

@toddgrotenhuis I think it's debatable whether that is spam, but regardless, I don't send any marketing emails like that anymore.

FWIW I used to have an outlook.com address I specifically set up to subscribe to newsletters and such and I ended up spending more time cleaning up and moving things out of spam than actually reading the things I subscribe to (outlook flagged as spam). I imagine different providers behave differently but my frustration stemmed from things I subscribed to (freely or paid) ended up as spam randomly and consistently.

@pratik I don’t remember one either. I was speaking in general as it seemed was.

@manton @CStamp I blame political emailers (like actblue) for this behavior - they’ve trained everyone into thinking unsubscribe does nothing.

As you say, it's not right when you sign up for emails from a small, ethical business. However, there are so many unethical businesses that swamp our inboxes with spam, that innocent victims sometimes get unsubscribed as part of a general clean up. It's not great, but it is understandable.

@lars I agree that the behavior is sad. But I wonder if it is a "lost cause" and that it could be more successful to try to get major email clients to automatically unsubscribe from newsletters (or offer to) when the user marks one as spam.