Bluesky relays, Mastodon discovery providers

Comparing ActivityPub and AT Proto is a useful exercise. It’s tempting but ultimately too simple to say that one is decentralized and one is centralized. Bluesky’s app and relay are centralized but personal hosting in Bluesky is decentralized. Mastodon’s instances are decentralized but identity within an instance is tied to that instance. This makes for an odd comparison because it’s actually easier to migrate account data in Bluesky than it is in Mastodon.

Folks have criticized Bluesky from the beginning for not adopting ActivityPub. I think it’s clear now that the Bluesky team created AT Proto because they wanted to decouple certain aspects of the protocol, allowing for a high-performance infrastructure that could replace Twitter, while maintaining the benefits of the open web around hosting and domain names. Their strategy has paid off. Bluesky is growing very quickly and is now twice as large as Mastodon.

Centralized identity is an issue, though. Most people in the fediverse are hosted on a single Mastodon instance, mastodon.social, and everyone in Bluesky is tied to a single identity provider. The team at Bluesky obviously knows this limitation, which is why they named their scheme “placeholder” and hope to have management of it adopted by a more independent, ICANN-style organization.

I mention all of this as prelude to fediverse discovery providers. Discovery providers is a proposal for an open network of servers that effectively index Mastodon servers, providing a more universal timeline and search across servers, among other potential features such as spam filtering. These servers would serve a similar purpose to Bluesky’s relay. If this model becomes popular and apps are built to depend on it, it makes aspects of Mastodon slightly less decentralized, but the trade-off is worth it. Many people do want a more realtime, complete index of posts that are flowing through the fediverse.

For years Micro.blog customers have also asked for a firehose view of blog posts. I’ve avoided it, and I’ll continue to avoid it, because it creates new problems for spam and moderation. It’s great that Bluesky and Mastodon offer their own forms of this. Not all platforms need it, though, and as Bluesky and Mastodon become busier, Micro.blog will continue to carve out a quieter, slower niche on the social web.

In Micro.blog you don’t see everything because seeing everything is overwhelming. Our approach to notifications is also pared back. Micro.blog has a simple Mentions section to see replies and @-mentions. That’s it. It does not have a Notifications section like every other network, cluttered with likes, follows, and retweets. If you’re used to the dopamine hit of seeing someone like your post, this more limited view may take some getting used to. It’s not for everyone, and that’s fine too.

If Mastodon can add a relay-like service with discovery providers, I wonder if Bluesky could add its own additional layer at the community level. In other words, something that duplicates the benefits of having many instances with a small number of users — thousands or tens of thousands of users, not millions. This could address some concerns about Bluesky depending too heavily on a single company, especially if client apps could connect directly to a community server.

Mastodon and Bluesky both have their own strengths. Because they don’t completely overlap, neither platform feels finished yet. The social web is still young enough that we can shape it, borrowing good ideas wherever we see them. Both platforms have staying power.

I’m less concerned with having a single “winning” social protocol than some people are. The web is already that protocol. Blogs and social networks can coexist, each building on open APIs and contributing what they’re good at: blogs for content ownership and voice, social networks for community. The lines will blur. Interoperability will get better. The web is finally in a good place again.

vladcampos

I loved how you framed the contrasting approaches. In a way, both are decentralized and centralized at the same time. I have a technical question about Bluesky. How is the user fully portable if there's a bsky URL attached to the username? Is there a forwarding similar to what happens on Mastodon?

vladcampos

I loved how you framed the contrasting approaches. In a way, both are decentralized and centralized at the same time. I have a technical question about Bluesky. How is the user fully portable if there's a bsky URL attached to the username? Is there a forwarding similar to what happens on Mastodon?

Mark Stoneman

I sympathize with the lack of a firehose on Microblog, but the discovery feeds are extremely limiting, both the topics (objectively) and the tendency to repeat certain people's posts without revealing enough other people (my impression). FWIW, I am also agnostic about the two protocols. I'm more comfortable on Mastodon, but I could easily find a ton of people I already knew virtually via Bluesky.

Manton Reece

@vladcampos When you rename your username to use your own domain name, the username doesn’t have bsky.social in it anymore. There’s also an identifier behind the scenes that persists even if you change hosting.

Jarrod Blundy

Do you think it will become possible for Micro.blog to become an "instance" for Bluesky like it is for Mastodon/ActivityPub?

Manton Reece

@jarrod Yes, that's the long-term plan. Still a few things to sort out before we get there.

Jarrod Blundy

Cool!

Mitch Wagner

Since you brought up the question of favorites and follow notices, I'll reply with my own perspective.

  • Follow notices are mostly noise, and good riddance to them! Every so often, however, I get a notification of a name that means something to me. A friend, colleague or someone I admire.
  • Likewise, follow counts are noise. Period. Full stop. Glad to see you don't support those.
  • However, reblogs are great and I miss them from micro.blog. I follow a few mastodon accounts solely because they reblog great things.
  • It should be relatively straightforward to generate a discover feed based on likes, reblogs and replies, if you were so inclined.

I understand and respect these points may not fit with MB's overall philosophy.

Manton Reece

@MitchW Thanks for the perspective!

Mitch Wagner

yw. I hope you find it useful. And you have inspired me to switch off Threads cross-posting. I don't need another social platform, and Zuck is Elon with better table manners. ​

vladcampos

That's really interesting. So, in the end, there's no user, it's all an ID.

Manton Reece @manton
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